<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 14:48, Simon Gay <<a href="mailto:Simon.Gay@glasgow.ac.uk">Simon.Gay@glasgow.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I see. Thank you.<br>
<br>
Would it be correct to say that in effect all the methods are link methods?<br>
<br>
And is there an advantage to doing this, or is it just an alternative <br>
structure?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Variety of run types through the part I would think would be the main advantage? Although perhaps also an element of Jonathan wanting to see how far the idea of multiple shunts could be pushed? <br></div><div>It's not going to be easy to get all the methods to feel nice and be ringable though. I wonder if there is a compromise solution with 4 or 5 shunts per part and a few regular methods for breathing space? <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
On 31/03/2021 14:38, Adam Brady wrote:<br>
> In the classic 11-part structure a cyclic "shunt" happens only once per <br>
> part in the link method (the first method in the classic palindromic <br>
> 11-part) and the rest of the methods have plain bob lead heads, so you <br>
> get 11 lead heads in a row which all belong to the same "cyclic part", <br>
> one set of these lead heads being all the plain bob lead heads and <br>
> rounds (the final part in the classic palindromic 11-part).<br>
> <br>
> I'm not sure if this is an absolute definition, but that is my <br>
> understanding of it.<br>
> <br>
> In Jonathan's structure, you get 11 lead heads in a row which all come <br>
> from different cyclic parts as we would describe them above.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2021, 14:07 Simon Gay, <<a href="mailto:Simon.Gay@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank">Simon.Gay@glasgow.ac.uk</a> <br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simon.Gay@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank">Simon.Gay@glasgow.ac.uk</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Do you think you could explain what it means to change the cyclic part<br>
> every lead?<br>
> <br>
> Simon<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On 28/03/2021 22:19, Jonathan Agg wrote:<br>
> > For a while I've been interested in cyclic compositions which mix<br>
> up the<br>
> > parts, by changing the bells which are pivot bells mid-part.<br>
> Examples<br>
> > include this one by DJP, which changes twice, once using a link<br>
> method,<br>
> > and again using mega-tittums:<br>
> > <a href="https://bb.ringingworld.co.uk/view.php?id=387809" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bb.ringingworld.co.uk/view.php?id=387809</a><br>
> <<a href="https://bb.ringingworld.co.uk/view.php?id=387809" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bb.ringingworld.co.uk/view.php?id=387809</a>><br>
> > <<a href="https://bb.ringingworld.co.uk/view.php?id=387809" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bb.ringingworld.co.uk/view.php?id=387809</a><br>
> <<a href="https://bb.ringingworld.co.uk/view.php?id=387809" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bb.ringingworld.co.uk/view.php?id=387809</a>>>. His particles<br>
> > compositions do this too as 12-parts.<br>
> > A fairly natural conclusion to this idea is a composition where the<br>
> > cyclic part changes every lead! I set myself the challenge of<br>
> finding a<br>
> > composition that I thought might be ringable, both in terms of<br>
> learning,<br>
> > and also importantly enjoyable enough to stand a chance of<br>
> persuading<br>
> > enough others to try and ring it in the future.<br>
> ><br>
> > I started out by looking at the existing link methods, and labelling<br>
> > them, firstly by the standard number of leads of Plain-bob and<br>
> second by<br>
> > their cyclic jump. For example, Slinky was labelled by (+5, +4)<br>
> as its<br>
> > lead end (14523ET90786) is the fifth leadend of Plain Bob<br>
> starting from<br>
> > 167890ET2345, which is "rounds + 4". Other examples include Cyclone,<br>
> > designed to move from 1ET907856342 to 1796E820ET53, which was<br>
> labelled:<br>
> > (-4, +4). Like other good link methods, these are musical,<br>
> palindromic<br>
> > and well-structured.<br>
> ><br>
> > Restricting the problem to only using palindromic methods and only<br>
> > ringing the 121 leadheads found in the classic cyclic 6<br>
> composition, the<br>
> > first step was to find a plan which solved the "11 queens"<br>
> version of<br>
> > the "8 queens" problem, making sure each part included each plain<br>
> bob<br>
> > lead end, and each cyclic part once. I tried using the existing<br>
> methods,<br>
> > but thought there aren't currently enough.<br>
> ><br>
> > From the 121 leadheads, I found the possible leadends by 'undoing'<br>
> > sensible leadend changes from each of them. I then looked for all<br>
> the<br>
> > possible methods from a leadhead to a leadend which were possible<br>
> with<br>
> > palindromic symmetry, i.e. requiring pairs swapping, or pivot bells.<br>
> > Interestingly, but after investigation predictably, some of these<br>
> > options corresponded to multiple relevant methods if rung with<br>
> different<br>
> > leadends (e.g. a method from leadhead 1234567890ET to leadend<br>
> > 12TE09876543 can be rung with a 2nds lead end to give<br>
> 12ET90785634 and<br>
> > also a 12ths place lead end to give 1T20E8967453).<br>
> ><br>
> > This raised my hope of not having to invent 11 methods, with clear<br>
> > associated benefits in reducing the method learning! However, it<br>
> will<br>
> > still need care to make sure any leads which reuse a method were<br>
> > conducive to music in all of them, probably by requiring the<br>
> pivot bells<br>
> > to be sensible.<br>
> ><br>
> > These candidate methods can be used as edges in a graph with the<br>
> > leadheads as nodes, and this can then be searched. I tried to find<br>
> > frameworks with 6 methods, in the hope the framework would itself be<br>
> > palindromic, but didn't find any. The smallest number of methods<br>
> used I<br>
> > found was 8, with lots of candidate frameworks. Very fortunately, it<br>
> > felt like the gods were smiling, and I stumbled across frameworks<br>
> like<br>
> > the one below where the pivot bells in the leads with repeated<br>
> methods<br>
> > corresponded to the 2 and the tenor for the cyclic part for each<br>
> of the<br>
> > leadheads. The only issue was the fairly comedic middle method,<br>
> with 9<br>
> > pivot bells.<br>
> ><br>
> > This lists the lead head and the lead ends:<br>
> ><br>
> > 11,1 5,11 1,10 4,9 2,8 3,2 8,3 9,4 7,5 10,6 6,7 11,8 (8 methods)<br>
> > 1234567890ET<br>
> > 1E098765432T<br>
> > 10E89674523T (A 1E098765432T,+T, pivot:T)<br>
> > 1TE325476980<br>
> > 1T3E52749608 (B 1T3E09876542,+2, pivot:3)<br>
> > 18694725E30T<br>
> > 1684927E503T (C 1T09876543E2,+T, pivot:E)<br>
> > 1T0395E72846<br>
> > 1T30597E8264 (D 1T0E59876342,+2, pivot:5)<br>
> > 108T624E3957<br>
> > 1806T423E597 (E 1492E0T83657,+T, pivot:8)<br>
> > 1806T324E597<br>
> > 108T63425E79 (F 1234587690ET,+6, pivot:lots)<br>
> > 19E7254638T0<br>
> > 197E5264830T (G 1T0E89756342,+2, pivot:7)<br>
> > 1T30584627E9<br>
> > 13T504826E79 (D 1T0E59876342,+T, pivot:5)<br>
> > 19E728406T53<br>
> > 197E8204T635 (H 1T0E87659342,+2, pivot:9)<br>
> > 15736T4028E9<br>
> > 175634T20E89 (B 1T3E09876542,+T, pivot:3)<br>
> > 19E02T436587<br>
> > 190ET2345678 (C 1T09876543E2,+2, pivot:E)<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > There are thousands more, so there may well be a nicer one hiding in<br>
> > there somewhere, particularly if 11 methods are allowed. This<br>
> lists the<br>
> > ones using up to 9 methods:<br>
> ><br>
> <a href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/134is8T8uoWd54U8xWtjXJ__f5Oi8p4hd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/134is8T8uoWd54U8xWtjXJ__f5Oi8p4hd</a><br>
> <<a href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/134is8T8uoWd54U8xWtjXJ__f5Oi8p4hd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/134is8T8uoWd54U8xWtjXJ__f5Oi8p4hd</a>><br>
> <br>
> ><br>
> <<a href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/134is8T8uoWd54U8xWtjXJ__f5Oi8p4hd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/134is8T8uoWd54U8xWtjXJ__f5Oi8p4hd</a><br>
> <<a href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/134is8T8uoWd54U8xWtjXJ__f5Oi8p4hd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/134is8T8uoWd54U8xWtjXJ__f5Oi8p4hd</a>>><br>
> ><br>
> > Coming up with methods was a challenge given the opposite pairs are<br>
> > unfamiliar, and there's also no possibility of rollups at the<br>
> half lead.<br>
> > I had various goes at this, and eventually came up with these<br>
> ones which<br>
> > I'm broadly happy with, though can certainly be refined further:<br>
> > <a href="https://complib.org/composition/76082" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://complib.org/composition/76082</a><br>
> <<a href="https://complib.org/composition/76082" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://complib.org/composition/76082</a>><br>
> > <<a href="https://complib.org/composition/76082" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://complib.org/composition/76082</a><br>
> <<a href="https://complib.org/composition/76082" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://complib.org/composition/76082</a>>><br>
> ><br>
> > My favourite one is the first method, which gets to megatittums<br>
> over the<br>
> > half lead with lots of plain hunting, with the tenor being pivot,<br>
> then<br>
> > 2,E, 3,0, 4,9, 5,8, 6,7 being opposites. Normally a method which<br>
> is a<br>
> > cyclic shunt of 1 is less popular as it's not as disruptive<br>
> music-wise<br>
> > as shifting by a larger amount, but in this composition this concern<br>
> > goes away!<br>
> ><br>
> > The issue with the middle method can be reduced by ringing a silly<br>
> > Bastow-style method with places which fairly naturally has the<br>
> desired<br>
> > effect in a very short space of time.<br>
> ><br>
> > If anyone has ideas for how to improve any of these methods, all<br>
> > feedback is gratefully received.<br>
> ><br>
> > Overall, I'm pretty happy with what I've managed to come up,<br>
> especially<br>
> > in structure, though some of the methods are a bit too fiddly in<br>
> places.<br>
> > Learning these unfamiliar methods would be tricky, but I think<br>
> possible.<br>
> > Perhaps in another year's time...<br>
> ><br>
> > Jonathan<br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
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> ><br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> ***************************************<br>
> Professor Simon Gay<br>
> <br>
> Head of the School of Computing Science<br>
> University of Glasgow<br>
> <br>
> <a href="http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~simon" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~simon</a> <<a href="http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~simon" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~simon</a>><br>
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